Monday, September 1, 2008

Piropos, in depth

So I was reading another blog, and there was a post about piropos. These are the antics of men in the street who get their kicks by bothering women in any number of ways, ranging from benign comments about prettiness, to obscene gestures and lewd remarks, to hissing and high decibal kissy noises. Read all about it from my first rant on the subject. Anyhow, this blog post that I was reading is specifically related to a very layered question: should you respond to these men? --in a negative fashion, claro, if you want to take them up on their offers that's your business.

I found the post very interesting but even more so the comments. I started to write one of my own but soon found it was turning into a post in its own right, so here I am.

In my own life, I tend not to respond to the running commentary. As I mentioned in my previous post on the topic, it's pretty constant. I'm hoping it will ebb some in the summer when the tourists come, but at least this winter being a blond has made me an exceptionally easy target. I just look strange, and that grabs attention. I don't have it with me but at some point in her memoir "My Imagined Country," Isabel Allende makes the comment that men in Chile will go crazy over a blond woman "even if she has the face of an iguana." Add to that, "if she is wearing sweats," "if she hasn't showered in three days," "if she looks like she hates the world," and "if she is in the company of her father," and you get the idea. I am very jealous of a certain short brunette friend who can "pass," as they used to say in a very different context. She frequently notes how much more annoying it is when I'm around. Of course, that statement holds true for a lot of things, but in this instance it's not my fault. In any event, if I were to respond to all of these jerks, I would spend as much of my time engaged in this sport as they do, and I truly would not wish that on anyone.

I agreed with one strategy that was mentioned, which is essentially to give them a look that reads, "oh how pathetic." Luckily I do this pretty naturally so it doesn't take too much effort. I do worry occasionally about some undiscovered link between excessive eye-rolling and future cataracts. Otherwise though, a pretty efficient approach. I will say, though, that I have a sort of knee-jerk reaction sometimes (generally after a hiss or a kissy noise--oh how I hate the kissy noise). This reaction generally involves me stiffening my arms, extending my fingers in some sort of cat-arching-its-back imitation, and letting out a ridiculously aggrieved noise which generally startles whomever I'm walking with. Ocasionally there are obscenities involved. I suppose there must just be a slow build-up that gets let out every once in a while.

While I was reading other people's perspectives, I began to realize what a multi-faceted issue this is. First, there was one comment that mentioned that gringas on vacation who go for the "latin lover" stereotype create much of this problem, at least for other gringas. I disagree with this very intensely. I understand that we are seen as "loose," as it was put, on much of this continent. Girls from the US are seen that way in a lot of Europe, as well. Honestly, this doesn't bother me--in fact, I think that plenty of us are more liberal in our sexual lives than many women here are. There is definitely a different attitude towards sex in the US and here, and I think that's just fine. Yay for difference, and acceptance of difference. Anyhow, what some gringas do or do not do in their personal lives has absolutely nothing to do with what some creep can say to me on the street. That to me is just an extension of the notorious "she was asking for it" logic. The thing is, when was the last time a guy yelled at a woman with the idea that she might sleep with him? These men know they're doing nothing but harassing us. I have a much higher tolerance for sleazy guys who hit on me in bars than I do for the street guys--at least the former have some aim involved other than impressing their friends and making my life unpleasant.

However, there's also another side to this, I realized. It was also suggested that gringas talk to Chilenas and tell them to fight back. The problem with this is, I don't think that's our place. In fact, I don't think it's warranted. I've had enough Chilenas (and French women, who live in a similar environment catcall-wise) tell me that they like the comments that I'm pretty convinced that this is a cultural issue, beyond being a gender issue. Yes, it is a very sexual thing. However, this is also a very sexual culture, compared to my own. And going back to what I said above, that's just fine. Gringas might be more inclined to have casual sex for pleasure--that does not make them sluts, or loose, or any other such obnoxious label. Chilenas may be more inclined to enjoy a sexualized relationship between the genders as a whole--that does not make them degraded, unless they fel that way, which I have not found that they do. Those who don't love the comments tend to find them harmless or at worse slightly annoying.

So, where does this leave us? In my opinion, to each her own. I hate the comments; when I walk towards a group of ogling guys that I can't avoid my stomach hits the pavement. So I will continue to roll my eyes until they fall out of my head and occasionally yell out nonsensical frustrations. And more power to the all-out combatants; I sympathize completely. I don't think that this is a societal problem to be solved--I think this a culture clash that every irritated woman must put up with in her own way. As for equalization of rights, well, maybe around the same time that women in the US start having the ability to express themselves equally, women in Chile will be out there in the streets hissing away with the best of 'em. Gender progress takes many forms--to quote Paul Simon, who am I to blow against the wind?

22 comments:

Mamacita Chilena said...

I'm all piropo talked out so I won't comment on that, because I don't know there's much I could say that I haven't already mentioned.

I will say...you're blond!?? We really need to meet sometime. My mental image of you has been thrown way off now.

Meredith said...

ha no worries, i don't think i'll ever want to write about piropos again....!!!

I am blond! Now I'm very curious about what image I project. In any event we should try to meet up for sure.

Anonymous said...

Interesting topic "Piropo"...I personally find such acts despicable in any country. Not only does it show such a lack of respect, it also reveals a deep seeded contempt for women. This kind of behavior is usually found in the baser sort..low life...the dregs of society...Some men never grow up...they continue to act like a little bunch of unruly teenage boy's without a lick of sense...JMHO

Meredith said...

Hi anonymous,

I agree with you, in that I think it's completely awful.

But I also think that each society sets its own rules, and changes come from within. Maybe the piropos will disappear, maybe they won't--Chile will decide. If, as a society, Chileans find piropos acceptable, then it isn't my business except within my own life.

Anonymous said...

I chuckle at your naivety! Quote
"If, as a society, Chileans find piropos acceptable, then it isn't my business except within my own life."

There was a time when kidnapings, murder, rape, torture were acceptable in this society and not so long ago. Though certainly not by any major portion of Chileans population. Do you find this acceptable? I think not!

Imagine yourself that night when that young man tried to steal your backpack instead of him a group of those piropos and you all alone! Just suppose as macho as some of them are egging one another add a little alcohol to that.

All evil needs is for good people to stand by and do nothing.

Douchebaguette said...

It's usually impossible to detect which guy in a group is doing the calling, or they're in a speeding vehicle and you'll never see them again. It's a peacocking of pure machismo and nobody really intends to get any action out of the deal. It's immaturity personified. That said, I've gotten more disturbing comments from restaurant kitchen coworkers and creeps at bars.
The issue I had in Chile was that I never truly felt safe walking around the streets. Safety is just an illusion anyway, but piropos at least assure you that yes, you are indeed being watched closely.

Meredith said...

"I chuckle at your naivety."

You don't know me.



More on topic, I do not think this is the same. Obviously people who get murdered, raped, or otherwise attacked are NOT ok with it. Chilean women have told me that they ARE ok with the piropos. You're making a huge jump in logic.

Maeskizzle said...

anonymous 2: Te fuiste al chancho. Ná k ver comparar los milicos de la dictadura con los weones que tiran piropos.

Sara said...

Good points, all of them. I go back and forth on the piropos. Somedays I hate them, and have been known to flick them off (take last night for example when the group of guys behind kept going on about "ven aca mi princesa!"), but sometimes, I secretly enjoy it.

Meredith said...

M- well put.

Sara- they annoy the hell out of me...but I do wonder now when I go back to the states if I'll be like, 'what?! where's my praise?!'

Anonymous said...

"You don't know me".

I know enough, Silly girl.

Anonymous said...

Was this totally unexpected? Did it not cross your mind that being young, blond, and beautiful in a foreign land where your looks are rare and exotic might cause a bit of a stir among the natives? :-)

Seriously tough, I think the root cause of the problem is not that the local men are irresistibly drawn to your allure and rush to complement you. Rather, it's the fact that their "piropos" are so utterly witless and vulgar that instead of putting a smile on your face, they actually upset you and make you want to throw daggers at the lowlives who blurt them out.

And that's too bad, but it's not entirely unexpected: one of the consequences of widespread poverty and a near useless education system that hasn't improved in decades are hordes of men whose manners leave much to be desired.

Meredith said...

Anonymous, I'm going to drop it here, but I do want to point out that I never said anything about piropos being interested in ME. In fact the point I was making was that it isn't ABOUT me.

However, as for everything else, knock yourself out. I'm done.

Anonymous said...

Fair enough. You've talked enough about the topic and perhaps I missed the point of your post, but hey, I just wanted to speak my mind.

But, for the record, I'm not the same anonymous who wrote the earlier demented posts, and believe me, I'm truly grateful I'm not. :-)

Anonymous said...

Matt, you're so obvious.:-)

Poofbegone said...

Hi Meredith, you talked about how you disagreed with what I said about gringas, latin lovers, and piropos. Well I just wanted to clarify that in no way do I think that gringas ever deserve the nasty piropos. That would be like saying a girl deserved to get raped for dressing provocatively. No, no, no. I just meant that gringas have a reputation and that might be why men are more likely to make cat calls. It would be interesting to survey Chilean men or other Latino men on how they perceive foreign women.

Meredith said...

hey Kathleen,

Thanks for the clarification! Don't get me wrong, I responded to what you said because it's something I've heard from other people as well, I didn't mean to single out your comment as a personal thing.

I would definitely love to hear some info beyond speculation on how foreigners are perceived here...I'd also love to know if we really are that much easier than Chilenas, but god knows how that study would be conducted!

m said...

After spending several years in various latin american countries, i actually DID get cataracts from rolling my eyes so i had to find a new technique. actually i got tired of having a mean face on all the time. so i flirt back. i've found the men are much more disarmed if you look them in the eye, smile, and say hello as you walk by (of course this is not wise to do with every guy - use some judgement).

or today at la vega (market here in santiago) someone said, "hola mi reina, que buscas?" i just smiled and he said "un rey?" so i said yes and we had a good laugh and that was that. i also look the guys back in the eye when they're walking at me or i'm walking by, quite often flirtatiously. i find it's been completely harmless and even fun. i'm much colder to men at clubs that i'm not interested in; i feel that those are the situations that could get gropey and nasty.

so, that's some food for thought. fyi i'm blonde and 24. i would recommend giving it a try; it makes for much more relaxed caminatas and some gratifying smiles.

Douchebaguette said...

Meredith- I wrote a hilarious rant to "naivety" guy, and then decided it wasn't worth the bandwidth to send it.

Cheap Viagra said...

I have been doing research in order to find information related to Piropos. then I realized that they are used for some specific purpose.
I don't think they are a bad thing, indeed, some women love them.

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